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- From: SimsGW@msn.com (Gary Sims)
- Subject: Re: NT not written with MFC
- Date: 15 Jan 96 00:38:41 -0800
- References: <4cka82$rmm@news.tamu.edu> <4cs7le$963@ornews.intel.com> <4cumsj$o9t@btree.brooktree.com> <4d6abt$ra7@ornews.intel.com>
- Message-ID: <00001a81+00008ddb@msn.com>
- Path: news.msn.com!msn.com
- Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
- Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)
-
- Don't worry about it Thurman. Some people just get emotional about
- the successes of others. Your comment was neither mindless nor a
- promotion. If you're really interested in the MFC, Scot Wingo
- maintains a FAQ file at http://www.unx.com/~scot/mfc_faq.html, and
- there is a Web page with pointers to many other resources at
- http://www.r2m.com/windev/MFC.html.
-
- From what I've read, MFC is being developed to make it easier for
- customers to do what MS programmers have had to sweat blood to do.
- The old saying is "Once I programmed it, I was ready to throw it away
- and and start over -- because then I knew how to program it right."
- Oddly, few program managers are willing to let us throw away the code
- they just tested to death at a cost of $50/line. So Microsoft won't
- being throwing away their working code that generated the "how we
- wish we'd done it" versions you see in MFC.
-
- There are a lot of utility classes in the MFC that are certainly used
- in almost all new programming at Microsoft. They use Visual C++ to
- write Visual C++ -- and the other groups apparently pressured the
- VC++ group a LOT in the late eighties to make it a tool suitable for
- their own professional development. (It hasn't been very long ago
- that "real" programmers considered compilers a sop to management, and
- best used for wuss's that wouldn't know a register if it didn't have
- a cash drawer beneath it. The first generation of PC compiler
- products suffered from this view of the market. Now is different. I
- haven't seen that old argument about assembler being the
- professional's tool of choice for some time now.) Since only an idiot
- lets his programmers re-invent something that works, I doubt that
- many (if any) Microsoft applications are developed without extensive
- use of all areas of the MFC for the new parts of their app.
-
- Operating systems would use the utility features like the collection
- classes, but they don't have much need for the document/view
- architecture. That's a way for applications to make use of the UI
- layer, not a way to implement it. However, Windows NT and Windows 95
- are almost completely written in C or C++ (depending on the age of
- the component in question). Windows NT in particular is said to be
- almost completely in C++, and there is a clear object orientation in
- the internal structure of that system. The synchronization objects in
- this generation of MFC are almost certainly derived from the in-house
- experience implementing multi-threaded code for those operating
- systems. So you won't find the MFC synchronization objects in that
- progenitor code -- just the next generation.
-
- Incidentally, I think you're right. C++ is a damn good programmer's
- language. In my not very humble opinion, it is the current state of
- the art. Significantly better than Ada, and WAY out in front of
- anything else for professional development.
-
- Keep trying to help the newcomers. If you worry about the noise level
- in the feedback, you'll never speak up to help someone newer than
- yourself. I've attached below the answer to the question that started
- this as collected by Scot Wingo.
-
- Regards,
-
-
- Gary W. Sims
- Stonehaven Laboratory
-
-
- /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
- 11.7. Does Microsoft use MFC in their products? Which ones?
- ============================================================
- There are many Microsoft apps written in MFC. Sometimes its just
- not obvious... (to name a few: Bookshelf, Bob!, WordArt OLE server,
- Visual C++ (of course), Win95 paint, Win95 WordPad, some portions of
- Win95 FAX software, some Win95 games I know of...).
-
- In the future, there are more apps coming out using MFC. I don't
- have a way to track all of these uses, so there is certainly more that
- I'm not aware of or can't remember.
-
- I don't expect Word or Excel to ever use MFC -- they have way too
- much legacy code and they don't see any customer benefit to rewriting
- to MFC.
-
- But my point is -- definitely for new code, Microsoft is using MFC.
- Even some "old" code is taking advantage of MFC in future versions.
- -Dean McCrory, MSMFC, 6/8/95
- Copyright
- ---------
- This document is compilation Copyright (c) 1995 by Scot Wingo.
- /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
-